3/5: Aaron Hawbaker

Aaron Hawbaker – Public Defender

They can’t just put a body beside you, they have to put someone beside you that knows how to fight a fight.

If you are below the poverty level you automatically get an attorney appointed to you.

His office has 9 other attorneys, 3 private investigators, 3 full time secretaries

Budget: Primarily Salaries

What does a defense attorney do even though they know they are representing a criminal that is most likely guilty?

“I’ve seen some pictures that none of you would want to see.”
“The first thing you have to do is absolutely believe and adopt.”
“You should feel confident that the people that are sitting in prison should be there. The only way you can do that is having someone like me, testing the proof of the state.”
“What drives me to work crazy hours, is that I don’t want someone sitting in prison for something I did or did not do”
“What is criminal changes with time. What we label as monsters changes in time. What should never change with time is the method we imprison those people.”

The thing that has never changed is the constitutional guarantee to a fair trial.

The definition of what we call murder has evolved over time.

Why are you a defendant lawyer instead of being on the other side?

A lot of people who don’t know me really hate me on social media, I don’t care what they think I own and believe the importance of what I do

How does the work of a defense lawyer start?

Establish relationship with your client
1. They need to trust you
2. Sometimes you have to convince them to make tough decisions. If they don’t have trust in you it’s going to be a difficult representation

Look at what they have, and establish if you believe they’re guilty or innocent
Mostly what we do is play on the general assumptions from your own personal experiences, and often times people can play on that.
They are the ultimate skeptis. They have to rely on their own senses when something doesn’t smell right. They must convince themselves that they are wrong, or they need to continue to pursue it.

“You don’t make a lot of friends doing what I do.”

“I’ve had to convince someone that 78 years sounds good.”

Joked about having late fees at the Rod Library and when they built the 4th floor saying it was named after him.

You have to put away leaps of logic and assumptions in the courtroom and only think of the evidence.

Difficulty getting Jury to Understand:

Courtroom – only place where people can lose their freedom

Cross-examination and the closing argument are the two most important to him

If what they are saying is true, what else should be true?

Permanent facts are often ignored by law enforcement, and he makes them prominent

Most difficult case, he had a not guilty case.

It was a domestic abuse. A woman stabbed a guy and he died.
There was some evidence that he was an abusive/bad man.
They were claiming self defense
He waived a jury
If there’s enough credible evidence that it’s self defense, the state will declare it as self defense. This is hard for the Jury to grasp.
She had a difficult time on the stand admitting she did it.
There was a video of an interview which he submitted to the judge
When she was informed he passed away, she completely lost it.
The judge needed to have time to view these videos, when he came home the next day. He brought it up to when she was told he was seriously injured. And then to when she was told he passed away.
The next day was decision day for the Judge. And he said not guilty.
She now is doing well and is married

Second time he waived the jury trial is when he had a guy who robbed a bank.

Have you lost any friendships over decisions?

What can we do better about reporting on court cases?

If people have questions he is happy to answer, but if anyone says his name or that he told them that relationship ends.
Jail is different than prison… get it right

Is there any court case you’d go back and do something differently?

“I think I’ve gotten more finesse over time”
The difference would be the forms and types of questions asked.
The tactics would have been the same
Trying to weave the explanation of facts into something the jury will understand is something he has gotten better with at time, but this is due to having practice at what he does. “I think my finesse is better now, but I can’t think of anything I would have done differently.”

Never objected to media presence in the courtroom. He just chooses not to participate in it.

Post conviction relief, which means you get another lawyer to look at what he did to make sure he didn’t screw up.

He doesn’t ask his clients if they’re guilty

If you weren’t a public defender which job do you think you would have?

Does he stay in touch with clients after they are no longer his client?

No, not really.
Even though it turned for the good, I am part of a very bad memory and a very dark time for them. So, it doesn’t surprise me that they don’t want to talk.

Thoughts on Death Penalty